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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 00:14:00 - [1] Originally by: torfi We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it. NO because you (ccp) is lieing to our faces with a smile enjoy 1 less alt subscription
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 00:34:00 - [2] Originally by: Danny Centurai So everyone who cancelled an EVE account is getting a Jumpgate Evolution account on day of release, ammirite :D. duuuude ... closed beta(when they finaly bring it out taps foot
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:04:00 - [3] CCP Credability Graph -100 0 100 --X--------------<\|---------------\|---------------\|> ^ You are here why not even further off in the - way off the chart you ask ? because there are still ccp employes with boobs and i cant say no to boobs
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:32:00 - [4] buuurrrrnnn forums buuurrrrnnnnnnn (sorry out of halfway sensible things to post )
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:51:00 - [5] you know that somethings wrong when goon post constructive criticism
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 03:06:00 - [6] Originally by: Baroness D I had recently cancelled an alt account because of what I considered extremely poor treatment by CCP's customer service. I received an email just last week about a month after the cancellation asking me to fill out a survey explaining why I had canceled my account. The email contained no link to the survey only to the survey company and I couldn't find a survey to fill out. Perfect example of what CCP thinks of there customers. Nothing. i think you just got information mail that you will recive a survey mail sometime in the future (about a week after that info mail)
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 11:23:00 - [7] Edited by: IR Scoutar on 14/10/2008 11:38:09 timeline : CCP Decides to adjust GTC's "to be more inline with other MMO's" eve forums explode a little accounts get put on hiatus after their playtime runs out due to high gtc vs isk prices / regular price(no cc/debit card meaning less control ) Months later financial crisis hits the world CCP states they are not affected some time later out of the blue an newly hired employee posts a very short information to server/website news stating that a "long overdue change" was about to happen eve forums explode well worded panic blog by senior ccp employee is written unfortunatly that dev didnt know anything about the actual topic and in effect lies to the customers eve forums explode i see a trend p.s. Mr. Hilmar Veigar Petursson here are a few ideas Don't let new/unknown ccp employees anounce deep gamechanging things .. thats just not smart Fire your public relations team (not the poor comunity people who probably didnt know this was comming ... poor wrangler ) If your "Lead Economist" knew about this and didnt say anything... FIRE HIM ... hes useless Have a round table to discuss things like this with a few more people , who knows maby even the CSM . You might be able to predict your customers reaction to particular changes hope that helps you a little
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 14:34:00 - [8] it may be just me but ive never seen that account maintanance page ever great stuff great stuff
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 14:43:00 - [9] Originally by: Koyama Ise CCP before you go bankrupt and lose your servers... release the source code... why the hell would you want the source code what you want is the IP or a free license to the eve universe
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 15:10:00 - [10] Originally by: Seth Ruin Originally by: chotaire Originally by: IR Scoutar Originally by: Koyama Ise CCP before you go bankrupt and lose your servers... release the source code... why the hell would you want the source code what you want is the IP or a free license to the eve universe Most useless and nonsense post of this thread, congratulations ;) Far from it. IP in this context refers to "Intellectual Property," and "license" in this context refers to the legal right to use said intellectual property... Source code will only tell you how the servers work. Without a license, you're not legally allowed to do anything with the source. Hell, even open-source software has a license (GPL and such). Or, y'know, you can just sit there and look at hundreds of thousands (if not over a million) lines of code... Ty Seth for keeping me from explaining that in a less kindly fassion than you did as for Originally by: ATARI BABY source code mean private servers. private servers mean free play. only if it is released under such a license that allows free use but thats still ignoring the problem of needing a rather wealthy entity to begin again sotospeak not everybody can go and rent a 100 servers out of the blue and give them to the comunity out of the kindness of their hearts thats why release IP -> company picks up -> new release 2009/2010 EvE : The Third Genesis
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 15:27:00 - [11] Edited by: IR Scoutar on 14/10/2008 15:28:21 Originally by: Annaphera Oh, and yet again...the flippin' game manual is NOT a promotion! however that manual shouldnt lie to you it should clearly state the use of its product or wouldnt you complain if your toaster manual told you that it is safe to submerge it in water and is capable of microwaving a roast in under 30 seconds ? of course in this case its more of the toaster was indeed capable of working under water but that now has decleard a bug after this has become comon practise for more than 5 years in this event it may be regarded as a fundamental game mechanics change (skill gain is a game mechanic in any game and eve's skilltaining is unique!) and being blatantly lied to that this thing that was once a feature is now a bug if not exploit doesnt sit well with allot of people i think THAT more than anything is what gets people angry (its my reason anyways) edit : curse my crappy keyboard if you find missing letters ... keep them
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 16:23:00 - [12] Originally by: Catherine Frasier I wouldn't expect such a list, period, why would you? Why would CCP (or anyone) run through each and every aspect of the game and specify; "Meant to do that", "Just got lucky", and "Ooops"? i dont know about you but id expect the creater of the game to know about their game if somethings an oopsie it needs to be fixed if something has gone into your explenation of the game declaring it as oopsie 5 years later is a bit of a stretch dont you think and certainly after 5 years id expect the creaters of a game to know about their game and not go ummm yeah i know we sort of sayd it was a feature but actualy it never ment to be like that besides if i was interested in a game and would like to know a bit more about the workings you know id try it and perhaps even read bit of the manual in this case called player guide in this case id take that and say hmm yes this is how this game is i see in this particular case that aspec hasnt changed in 5 years now declaring this as an unwanted BUG is a bit far fetched if you already declared once that this is a game feature now if this "bug" or "Unintended feature" was left out of the game guide alltogether you could indeed call it that but the fact remains that after 5 years coming and saying "ooops bug" is a bit well.... you know ...
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 16:26:00 - [13] Originally by: Kelly Cleiniv Edited by: Kelly Cleiniv on 14/10/2008 16:21:43 Wooohoo !! i¦m nr 2017 in the biggest whine thread ever nooo 2020!! lies! its not the biggest yet (even if you count the 49 pages of the locked one) but it will be ooh it will be
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 17:34:00 - [14] so ummmm wts tinfoil hats ? by the looks of things they are actualy warranted
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 18:05:00 - [15] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Erimisha CCP intentionally coded the game to do it this way from the start. Do NOT tell me they couldn't simply execute some code at the same time the db updates "Account ACTIVE: Y" to "ACCOUNT ACTIVE: N" to pause training. There's a huge and important difference between "Didn't fix it right away" and "intentionally coded the game to do it this way from the start". Pretending they are the same thing is just lying. Further, skills don't actually train in real time, it just appears that way. When you log in it calculates how many skill points you accumulated since your last log-in and adds that to the existing count. I imagine now the system will update your character file after the 3 day grace period has expired by finalizing the sp count and setting the skill in training to "none". (Which, I agree, they should probably have done when this oversight was first discovered. Sloppy.) actualy i would call it intentional because at what point would you say ok so when the game time runs out we need to stop the character from doing things and then somebody goes ahead and codes it in a way that the character cant login to myeve or the eve client itself but everything else about the character still continues to run ? at some point there was a deliberate decision that its ether too much work or its fine if the character continues to sell train and earn rp even thou he aint paying and 5 years to revearse that decision is quite quite quite a stretch if it was an oversight then im just lost for words and must /facepalm till eternity
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 18:11:00 - [16] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: IR Scoutar actualy i would call it intentional because... Sadly the word "intentional" already has a definition. thx for that up untill now i thought u where somebody with a diffrent possition you know somebody you can have a discussion with that however is no longer the case
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 18:32:00 - [17] Originally by: Brigsby5987 if you dont pay, you dont play. period. No one cares if your poor, or your gonna take your alts and cancel your account. Either STFU or leave. Hopefully CCP understands that sometimes a general **** off attitude is good when dealing with the playerbase, as most of you complaining about them removing ghost training are being asshats about it. by that logic most people cheering for the removal are asshats aswell seeing as there are about 10 people cheering and the rest u probably count to this section just dont give a damn im gona count 10 people (btw 90% of statistics are indeed made up) that tells me that 1 of them isnt an asshat and because im rounding up its 2 and you clearly fall into the category of the other 8 who are asshats ty for your time
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.15 00:32:00 - [18] Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans ...apology... hmmmm sorry but no if thats all you (and by that i mean ccp not you personaly) can come up with in 24 hours.... im still not seeing the apology for the "mistake" of calling this a game balance bugfix instead of the actual bank account fix (its been mentioned to death that skilltraining isnt the only thing that continues) besides it has far reaching consequences by your own admitance the left didnt know what the right was doing something we already knew anyways and by observation of ccp behaviour over time the head was trying to do something completly diffren from the left and right and dont even get me started about the feet ... in short it looks like allot of your loyal customers see this incident as the final straw no matter the original issue now most wont necesarily emoragequit but they will certainly consolidate some alts and/or simply let some existing subscriptions expire a trend wich will in all probability continue if you (thats ccp) dont do something about yourselves
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.15 02:46:00 - [19] hmmm yes based upon history and the way this was handled explained and "apologised" for ive come to the decision that my main will NOT be renewed this week as originaly planed instead and will remain that way baring some unforseen mayor owning up to mistakes from ccp as for the lovely alt, that will run out on 03.12.2008 wich should let me whitness that thar winter expansion if i like what im seeing by then i shall return if not meh nobody will care and i get to find out how well that thing outside my window is rendered
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.15 13:33:00 - [20] Originally by: Zinnn .......they'd prefer to get the GOOD macaroni and cheese, with expensive ketchup. this is the real issue here! u eat mac & cheese with ketchup !?!?!?!?!?!? no but seriously for me its still that in your face over and over lieing thing the "ghost training" disabling i can live with after all i got battlecruiser 5 and battleship 5 (all trained in burn out periods that usualy lasted 2 months+) i also have an alt that is trained up to what its supposed to do so for me its simply consolidate accounts (or let 1 run out ... depends if i sick of building or pewpew first lol ) and once i get burnout syndrome again perhaps not come back because thers some other game with internet spaceships that delivers who knows whats gona happen as for their choice of removing "ghost training" yeah i think thats a bad bussiness choice for a TON of reasons but hey if they want to shoot themselves in the foot with a howitzer (minmatar edition with volkswagens) i say let em maybe their subscription statistics in the coming months will explain it to them why lieing is bad if thers a minimal fluctuation i say good on you ccp! simple realy
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.15 23:02:00 - [21] Soooooo did we get an appology for that devblog and the appology for it yet ?
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.16 02:01:00 - [22] can we like split this in 2 diffrent topics ? those people that have emorage at ccp because they lied to them multiple on this 1 issue alone and those that have emorage about there being no more what was apparently called ghost training yes no maby idk im scared ?
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.16 02:24:00 - [23] somewhere in those 129 pages there is a response from torfi that prety much reads like this "oops we didnt know that we had that documented but we arnt gona chance our decision"
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.16 20:55:00 - [24] still no appology for the lies eh ? (that includes torfis reply there btw)
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.17 13:47:00 - [25] Edited by: IR Scoutar on 17/10/2008 13:49:31 regardless of what i think of ccp as a company atm wich incidentialy is portrayd very well in this futurama trailer between 0:27 and 0:32 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEiJ3QA4kKs i still maintain there are 2 issues at hand issue nr 1 : The unaceptable way this "ghost training fix" was anounced, folowed by a blatant lie in a panicblog, folowed by some dribble in this threadnaught wich ether implies we are all morons or ccp are morons because they actualy let something like that slip thru and didnt notice it and i sitll dont seen an appology besides the "sorry you are so knowledgeable" apollogy in this threadnaught on page 93 (and one could say the ceo then posting a devblog wich is utterly and completly uninteresting and doesnt realy toutch things that concern the eve players atm) issue nr 2 : Ghost training oh god oh god oh god we got something for free wich was now taken away boohoo or not boohoo ? after all its been 5 years ... yes there where people that abused it soley to get their momy pilots or titan pilots or whatnots but frankly who gives a crap ? mostly whiners that will never be able to sit in such a thing, at the most get blown up by it (yeah i dont have one ether and nether does my mains corp ... why am i not posting with my main ? because that has run out of gametime and i probably wont renew him because of issue nr1 ) but why should you even care that "ghost training" was taken away ? you ? probably shouldnt care at all the guys that suffer burnouts or cant play for a month or 2 probably will care much more for reasons posted to death here colosing thoughts frankly that ccp took away ghost training is a horribly horribly bad bussiness decision in my eyes nothing more, so if they want to shoot themselves in the foot with a bazooka ... let em! What i care about and what i WANT is a bloddy appology for HOW this crap went down, plain and simple p.s. not in this topic... in a dev blog... with a news announcement ... and dont burry it under 10 tons of rubbish like you did with ghost trainings and pardon the pun the subsequent ccp fallout
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.17 14:12:00 - [26] Originally by: Doomsday Its just so easy. CCPs game, CCPs rules. Just like in every other MMO: "Adapt or Die." We don't pay them to develop and maintain our game, we pay for log in to there game. Only one thing can change there opinions - there wallet. Don't pay them when you don't like there decisions - plain and simple. They know many people "love" there chars and the second life they have in EVE, so the customer base is resilient. They do not quit or come back after a month. They cry, but who cares - they "Adapt or Die." First of all ill try if i can get thru to you with logic about the "bug" Ill try to keep it simple If you program a game like this where accounts run out of gametime.. you want the characters to stop everything they are doing and not be able to log in ... correct ? would you say stop them from being able to see the game news and post on the forums but "forget" to make the caracter stop all its ingame actions because ? its too hard to code ? (LMAO wrong job) or infact you dont care and it works as intended and then over 5 years after the game has been release and you added it to your manual etc blablabla suddenly come out and say oopsies thats umm a bug we missed it for 5 years and we thought when you cant log in your caracter stops doing everything .... please please please stop calling it a bug or an oversight or whatnot it was deliberate (feature or not good or bad i aint discussing that ) as for Quote: They know many people "love" there chars and the second life they have in EVE, so the customer base is resilient i dont know what you play but i play a game called EvE : Online not an escape world because i ****ed up in the real one called second life ppl are indeed fond of their chars but i wouldnt pay just to see a bar go from left to right ... actualy i wouldnt because i for whatever reasons cant play at the moment ... always thought that ..... oopsie allmost got dragged into that silly discussion there nvm
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.17 14:41:00 - [27] Originally by: Doomsday Don't get me wrong. I just quoted the dev blog where its called a bug. I just pointed out, that they don't care about many people, because they know they stay or come back. There is only one way to let them think over there decisions - over there wallet. If this will not happen, nothing changes. just voicing my distain that some people insist of calling it a bug or exploit
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.18 11:47:00 - [28] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon stuffs please reread the thread to get some more clues as to why people are a bit more bothered btw lol panicnewsletter even that completly bs "laser crafts" think nobody could care less about is in the newsletter lmao
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.18 16:19:00 - [29] thx for putting the thread visible again wrangler dearest but erm Originally by: CCP Wrangler Posted - 2008.10.18 15:53:00 - [21] The way our forum works is that if you press the delete thread button you don't actually delete the thread, it just gets unlisted from the forum channel. If you have a direct link it's still accessible and unless the thread is also locked you could normally post in it to bump it back to the forum channel. As a consequence of this we don't actually use the delete thread function, in this case the button was pressed by accident (it is located right next to the delete post button). Unfortunately bumping back the thread didn't work this time, it is uncomfirmed right now but I believe it was due to the fact that the thread was a sticky. I got this bright idea that if I moved the thread to a different forum and then back again it might just jog the thread loose and push it back there, which seems to have worked as it is visible again. does that mean you guys wanted to lock the thread about accidentialy "deleted" it instead ? if so thats just as bad
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.18 16:30:00 - [30] Edited by: IR Scoutar on 18/10/2008 16:30:58 Originally by: CCP Wrangler Originally by: IR Scoutar thx for putting the thread visible again wrangler dearest but erm Originally by: CCP Wrangler Posted - 2008.10.18 15:53:00 - [21] The way our forum works is that if you press the delete thread button you don't actually delete the thread, it just gets unlisted from the forum channel. If you have a direct link it's still accessible and unless the thread is also locked you could normally post in it to bump it back to the forum channel. As a consequence of this we don't actually use the delete thread function, in this case the button was pressed by accident (it is located right next to the delete post button). Unfortunately bumping back the thread didn't work this time, it is uncomfirmed right now but I believe it was due to the fact that the thread was a sticky. I got this bright idea that if I moved the thread to a different forum and then back again it might just jog the thread loose and push it back there, which seems to have worked as it is visible again. does that mean you guys wanted to lock the thread about accidentialy "deleted" it instead ? if so thats just as bad No, the delete thread and delete post button is located next to each other, not the lock thread button, that is somewhere else. okokok ill let you off edit : althou i have the possibility to complain infinatly more of course
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.18 17:07:00 - [31] what i dont get is all that talk of warhammer i mean where be the spaceships! somebody find me a spaceships mmo that has every aspect eve has untill then i shall not emoragequit however i just wont pay for my main and in all probability will let my alt run out unless of course you know some higher ups grows some balls and appologises for questioning our inteligence (to put it lightly)
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.18 17:42:00 - [32] Originally by: Sandy Minge Originally by: IR Scoutar what i dont get is all that talk of warhammer i mean where be the spaceships! somebody find me a spaceships mmo that has every aspect eve has untill then i shall not emoragequit however i just wont pay for my main and in all probability will let my alt run out unless of course you know some higher ups grows some balls and appologises for questioning our inteligence (to put it lightly) Ok how to simulate EVE-Online: Start up ICQ, enter a chatroom with 10-1000 people, hand out WARSHEEP-invitations to 5 different ppl at the same time and start to play against them while downloading 5 different **** movies for extra lag - oh and pay me $14,95 per month ahh but it still needs a nebula background that blinds you together with pretty ships yet ugly planets and moons n stuff oh and the ships need to shoot thru themselves before they hit their target only to display the message that you missed completly
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.19 19:41:00 - [33] i still have that moral dilemma on the one hand i love the game (because well its the only space mmo out there that does everything) but on the other hand i dont feel like giving a company money that lies in my face :/ (and is also plagued by the mediocre bug ) what to do what to do
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.20 04:17:00 - [34] Originally by: Soma Khan dribble i've read lots of your replys now and ive come to the conclusion that, as a kid, you must have been very good at putting your hands over your ears and going LALALALALALALALALALALALALALA i always wondered why certain things in the world could have been, but seeing that there are people like you happily eating shit, just because the spoon is called eve and its actualy a very good concept makes me understand....
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.20 10:50:00 - [35] Originally by: Duskadantor Well.. at least I'll try to believe this. i cant anymore ccp has screwed it up big time one too many times.... not even a bloddy apology! (that dribble from torfi on page 93 may sound like an apology at first but its just another insult tbh) its like some guys at ccp had a fking great idea once upon a time and called it eve online made a mediocre implementation and then tryd to screw it up as big as they can while retaining some users
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.20 15:42:00 - [36] Originally by: Jaben Thore Originally by: Halleck Gurney Originally by: Jaben Thore But i thought the fun came from working towards a goal, not the speed at which you achieve the end result? Well, fact of the matter is : There is no end result, only an endless grind ... and working towards a goal seems to get blurred in time. Whenever you set out a goal, it will be a matter of time before that goal disappears because of the almighty game balance. I have wasted way too much time in training skills that get ultimately reduced to junk. Ghost training was the only thing that kept my options open while hoping for a better future. Seems that door is closed now. Seems to me that if you view one of the fundamental game mechanics as being a waste of time, it's the not the game that has changed, but you. Perhaps you've simply grown tired of the game, and it's time for you to move on? ahh you see this was a major lets call it selling point if we can call the continued training ghost training people grow tired of stuff all the time and its a game not a job ... so send it into stasis go do something else and then after some time you just felt eve calling and then you thought hey didnt i set insert retadedly long prequisit shkill for some nice ship ? yeah i did well lets go check it out :D thus starting a new cycle
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.21 01:11:00 - [37] Originally by: Soma Khan Originally by: Richard Aiel funny thing about that.... thats my sig Look at the spot between the 15th and the 17th... theres no peak Yeah right, and there were no DT's between the 15th and 17th either. A fine example of the freeloaders tinfoil-hattery and supposition. i never knew it doesnt require a minimum iq to keep breathing Originally by: Richard Aiel Edited by: Richard Aiel on 20/10/2008 23:25:32 Originally by: snotvomit Edited by: snotvomit on 20/10/2008 22:09:17 I know I've mentioned it before in this thread but look at the bottom graph here: coldfront stats You will see that the number of players online has been steadily rising since the game began - up to March 2008. After March, it levels off and perhaps begins falling a little. Definitely NOT increasing. Not even slightly. This is something new for Eve. I suspect CCP had been optimistic with their projections. Maybe the changes in GTC prices were implicated in this halt in growth. I doubt the "Ghost Training" mess will cause the graph to begin climbing again. I also doubt that CCP will benefit financially from people staying subscribed for longer than they would otherwise. They definitely won't have won many friends for the way they handled this either. funny thing about that.... thats my sig Look at the spot between the 15th and the 17th... theres no peak in actuality the coldfront polling of the server was broken (observe tah there no 16th at all) chribba has it however you probably wont see any real effect on the graphs this quickly check again in november/december to see a real impact see what i did there Soma Khan ? i came up with an explenation not drooled all over the keyboard ...
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.21 06:33:00 - [38] Originally by: Calranthe I have no problem with this change and see it as entirely justified, I have three active accounts in EVE, my two and wifes one, If I didn't have the money to pay for three i'd not expect to be able to use those three in any way. Why should people who don't pay be allowed to have there chars still gaining skills while I pay per month for my characters while training ? Good one EVE As to those leaving over this, no real loss i'm sure there is games out there that suit cheapskates far more. please re-read the topic to get a clue on why people are outraged you will find that only a very small percentage emoragequited because of just the loss of a feature
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.21 07:22:00 - [39] Originally by: DorXtar I hate this change as much as the next person, but after allowing my subprocessor to churn over it a bit, it actually makes a lot of sense on multiple levels. Why did CCP allow ghost training in the first place? As a gift to early adopters to make up for the lack of consistency in the performance of the infrastructure. EVE didn't always work as it should, and "our logs show nothing" was endemic, but at least you could ghost train. Sure, you lost isk to stupid, random, unpredictable glitches and crashes, but ghost training was the duct tape that kept a lot of people going in EVE. Allow me to first start by saying i have considered this aswell but i have thought about it again and came to other conclusions what you describe here is still going strong while yes glitches and oopsies have allmost dissapeared life is not so good out in deep 0.0 where glitches are still more comon than faction spawns Originally by: DorXtar Now that CCP has some confidence and momentum in the performance of their infrastructure, an obvious step is to remove ghost training in preparation for the influx of new blood. If you don't remove ghost training early enough, the new blood will get used to it, and will take it for granted. Before the new wave of new players hits, CCP takes out ghost training. Smart move. While one could agree with this "ghost training" only stands on the top of things that continue on long after you cant logg in so why only this ? Originally by: DorXtar Walking in stations is a big deal. It will attract more people to the game, despite what everyone else may say. Add to that, large fleet battle engagements will become a big draw now that they will consistently work without the amount of issues that existed before with the same number of players. walking in stations is still at least 1 year away if they want to release it sloppily and buggriddled 2 years if they want to do it propperly and with rising playernumbers the fleet size rises aswell and problems will just drag along with it (on heavily loaded nodes even small gang skirmishes can go wonkey ) Originally by: DorXtar CCP never had the means to support mainstream status, content-wise or in terms of infrastructure. Now that the infrastructure is stable and robust, CCP can implement features into the game that will support the attentions of the mainstream. In my eyes the infrastructure can still only barly handle its current load without any hotspots forming good news about walking in stations is that that shouldnt realy put much more of a strain on the servers/databases just clients Originally by: DorXtar Just as the old old veterans, early-adpoters if you will, had a time advantage on noobs, well, a lot of us had the ghost-training advantage that helped us in the pocket book, which we wholly deserved considering all the lag deaths and losses most if not all of us encountered at one time or another in EVE life. this is where we part thought lines radicaly i never thought that "ghost training" was my well deserved freebee because the game was bugriddled i always thought of it as an incentive and/or bonus for returning to the game after you took a break or couldnt pay or whatever besides how would i play the game when i stop playing to get my free training time thats not saying of course i didnt somewhat factor that possibility in and infact used it to further my character(s) when i was on vacation or simply burned out there is always a stupidy long skill that you need to "unlock" something nice and shiny however i maintain that this was always more of an incentive to return when i was away from the game that holds especialy true if i was away for reasons other than vacation (wich usualy is short anyways) so even for future players i think it was a wrong decision to remove this feature
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.21 15:43:00 - [40] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 21/10/2008 12:56:29 Originally by: Brother Welcome I'm astonished by CCP's handling of this whole thing. As I now understand the functionality, consistent with having to pause training to plug-in implants and so on, the whole cost of training is fully paid up when you set it going. That means that it's like pulling into a petrol station and putting in $30 of petrol. It's all paid up front, but you see the benefit of it eked out over time as you drive along. The petrol station guy can't come and siphon gas out of your tank just because you've decided not to come back to get more for a couple of months! You're not paying for a number of units to use as you see fit. You're paying for the right to use their product for a specific period.... So no.... You DON'T understand the functionality.... It's more like renting the car for 1 month with free petrol. You can drive it all you want in that month, but once the month is up and you don't pay, you're not allowed to drive the car any more. analogys just dont work propperly but try it like this you live in the cold cold north where your car's engine constantly needs to be kept warm otherwise it freezes and you cant get it going and a bunch of other nasty things (some ppl will know that ;) ) now you go rent a car wich exclusivly remains your car but you only paying while your driving (fuel included) but the cool thing is it comes with a free "keep engine warm" package now after 5 years the rent goes up and if you decided to pay your car in "drive time cards" you notice you cant vary your driving that much anymore so you decide to let your car sit arround for longer periods at the same time the rental company sees that ppl arnt driving their cars that much anymore and conclude that this must have to do with their policy to keep the engine warm for free hence they take that away now the consumer sees a car thats more expensive and that he will have trouble restarting at all hope this analogy is crazy enough
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.21 19:01:00 - [41] Originally by: CCP Torfi's interview http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/2349/Ghost-Training-Interview I must say for the most part this is very carefuly worded Originally by: interview ôWhen we originally programmed the training system, it was an oversight on our part not to put in the text to see whether the account was active or inactive back in 2003. We have patched a lot of issues since then and this particular issue wasnÆt addressed because it wasnÆt considered that seriousà It never got bumped up our list of bugs because not too many people were making use of it. It wasnÆt really on our radar.ö That of course is ether a flaming pile of BS or an admitance to very bad game design knowledge or comon sense realy Originally by: Interview ôA couple of weeks ago, we were doing some research on our database and running some queries as we do frequentlyà and we noted a big rise in......etcblablabla... cause and effect realy (i hope i dont need to explain) while yes some people use that feature more in a way of an exploit its people that often have multiple accounts already Originally by: Interview People were using Ghost Training to advance their characters without paying a subscription. So, they were building fairly strong characters without paying a subscription. Which, to be honest, didnÆt seem fair.ö There is still so much a character can do without paying for the game... Also calling it bad for other players seems a weak point at best Originally by: Interview ôIt was a general oversight on our part,ö Torfi admitted. He went on to remind me about the companyÆs origins as a smaller company. ôBack in 2004,ö he said, ôwe were a company of 40 doing what companies of 80 or 120 were doingà.....blablabla.... That is something hardly anybody will argue about. Yeah stuff like that can happen What cant happen is that multiple people from ccp call it a feature aswell and then you turn arround and call it a bug... Originally by: Interview ...eve china blablabla... ôAt the time,ö Torfi explained, ôwe had not introduced EVE time codes. Everyone was using credit card subscriptions so it was more of an effort to un-subscribe and re-subscribe than it is today. ThatÆs why it wasnÆt such a common play style back then.ö hmm actualy i have no clue when exactly codes where introduced i must admit but here is a fun question that "at the time unimportant "bug" " was fixed ... and you erm didnt deploy it to TQ even thou the "old devs" considered it a "bug" i... i... im allmost lost for words all i can say is a big whooping great WTF in short a carefuly worded interview that can be picked appart completly if you read it twice and have more than 4 brain cells engaged in cognitive abilities
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.22 04:18:00 - [42] Originally by: Richard Aiel Next: theyll remove the ability to pay for game time cards with in game currency because its unfair to new players why they can sell gtc's and then buy gtc's with the isk they now have or something
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.23 02:36:00 - [43] Originally by: captain shepard the real question is, will this "blog" even make a difference? no, because howmany ppl will listen to it ? 1000-2000..... i want an appology readable for everybody even in the future, i want a news item linked to it, i want an ingame news item linked to it aswell, and of course a comments thread for it i dont care if its burried under 3 devblogs and an marvelous anouncement again i just want to have one lol
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.23 10:14:00 - [44] Originally by: Richard Aiel Having an argument in another thread on another page with a guy/gal whose position is as follows: Quote: And yet weirdly daily playing numbers remain steady at 25,000 + players per day on weekdays, 30,000 + at weekends. Seriously the whole issue is a storm in a teacup. What so all those people who are cancelling are still bothering to log in and play are they? Maybe a few would be, but seriously if any amount worth worrying about (like the 1000s that some would have us believe) were actually quitting you'd expect a few thousand less players per night already. If you inted to quit an MMO there is literally ZERO point in playing it. Last night at 6.30pm GMT there were 33,000 players online... As i said its a huge storm in a teacup. And while we are on the subject in an interview to explain the Ghost training thing a CCP guy said only 4.5% (or something like that) of the player base actually used ghost training anyway. And id imagine that 98% of those were second or even 3rd accounts of existing players. I need argument fodder as Im bad at it ...and Discuss!! meh i dont know why i bother its allmost too easy a) we dont emoragequit because the game is poo we emoragequit because ccp is lieing in our face b) we actualy like the game or else we wouldnt have been playing it now would we c) gametime is payd up front so you know there is usualy still a considerable amount left ... why not erm play the GAME we like ? d) ppl in general are consolidating their accounts and just letting alts fly e) 30k+ ppl online 250k subscriptions majority has 2+ alts starting to understand are we ? f) so what is it 4.5% of the 250k+ subscriptions or 4.5% of the 60-100k real people ? f1) 4.5% more or 4.5% more revenue (albeit being unsteady) is still an amount you perhaps wouldnt want to throw away in a global recession f2) your point seems more in favor of the wtf why did u take away that feature side .... f3) is that your only argument ? that your not seeing much fluctuations of online players after a week when thers a huge gaping discrepancy between online players and subscriptions in the first place !?!? there enjoy
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.23 23:36:00 - [45] Originally by: Grath Telkin Originally by: Gideon Fawkes blablabla bbq analogy blablabla were done here, this guy wins actualy id call that a fair analogy and certainly correct to an extent (if the friends and family would have been former coworkers and the workers payd the company to work for them it would have been even better but we get it ) and as it has been sayd time and again if CCP had come up with an explenation like this there wouldnt be such a threadnaught my guess is if ccp had done it right the ppl that complain would have been just the abusers of this feature and maby a voice or 2 of the ppl that realy apreciated what this feature was for normal ppl (in most cases brought them back to the game!) instead ccp went ahead and vomited all over us here is the compressed timeline that makes ppl go emo 1) New CCP Employe posts the fixing of a bug whos fixing is long overdue but the time to adjust is 48hours 2) Thread erupts with complaints about the short timeframe and calling it a bug in the first place 3) Panicblog by torfi underlining that this has been a longstanding bug and some other dribble 4) New thread erupts after panicblog and first one is closed after 49 pages. Main theme : we dont like being lied to. side theme : omgemoragequit vs hahaemoragequitters 5) Thrednaught and panicblog are burried under completly unrelated panicblogs and new anouncements... thread dissapears from index (may be genuine bug ... only mods know for sure) 6) Somewhere on page 93 of what has become a threadnaught a single post trying to explain how it was a bug 7) PPL starting to foam out of their mouthes because of the ongoing lies 8) Threadnaught continues to grow.. thread reapears on index 9) Interview with torfi on MMORPG.com surfaces and is easily picked appart yet again the theme here : lies continue but this time somebody tryd hard 10) Thread reaching epic proportions (even omiting the first 49page locked one) 11) Live Failblog with torfi anounced ... torfi substituted by chief whipping boy zulupark.. short explenation squeezed out of him : bussiness decision there where a few weak atempts at apologising but they where more on the tone on "sorry that you caught us" there hasnt been an official appology for the blatent lies yet thats what ****es most people here off
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.24 03:59:00 - [46] Originally by: Gideon Fawkes Ghost training is an exploit. You know it! I know it! And the Caldari people know it! (Sorry, got carried away there.) up untill this point i might have agreed with you now its thank you and good bye (no its not the caldari people ) Originally by: Duskadantor stuff yes they are after money, its a bussiness >_< infact that whole skillqueue argument is a bit moot i mean who the hell can say he has never ever just logged in to check if a skill is done change it and logged out again and finaly second account for second player well usualy the second account you open is a character you need together with your main and you cant log into more than 1 character on 1 account anyways .... so again ... i cant see many people complaining but the newest power of 2 infact in that case more account consolidating would take place meaning even less of the $$$
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.24 11:50:00 - [47] page 165 and still no apology \o/
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.25 03:12:00 - [48] i had to giggle **** at that commodore thing
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.25 05:48:00 - [49] Originally by: Rasik Argimater Stuff nice writeup
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.28 00:22:00 - [50] meh posting slowed it will probably get swept under the rug....
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.28 05:08:00 - [51] Originally by: Bee oflight ummm ? lol wut ? seriously i dont get it are you pro change or against change ?
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.28 12:33:00 - [52] Originally by: Razzlee Originally by: IR Scoutar meh posting slowed it will probably get swept under the rug.... CCP will be bringing this up themselves in a few months time when they realize their active subscriptions have plummeted by the thousands and that those players aren't coming back like they thought they would. More than likely though, by then, it will be too late. well so far with each half arsed atempt to explain they have gotten more to the point where zulupark even sayd it was a bussiness decision whats left now is an official statement preferably as a news item or devblog that simply states "We are sorry for lieing to you, we thought it would be easyer for you to swallow this way" untill i get that i shall be whining with my lovely alt here untill this aco**** runs out of gametime aswell (main already ran out) or im banned from the forums. Why do i stay on and whine ? Because i love this game and there is so much more potential in it
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.29 05:03:00 - [53] Since i cannot reply to CCP Zulupark directly anymore in the topics Originally by: CCP Zulupark Hellmar: I've already said myself that we could and should have handled the original announcement on ghost training much better. I don't know what more you want :) For the uptenth time I dont care about the change itself I dont even care much how you handled it (its your own fault) I dont want an explenation I dont care than you say you will learn from it I dont want YOU to apologise or explain What i want is realy simple: I want the BOSS of CCP to come forth and say in an official place like a Dev Blog: Listen we are sorry for WHAT we sayd i dont care much for how you sayd it thats your own problem and you can ideed learn from it and ccp has already sayd so and just so i dont have to repeat myself AGAIN DB performance = Lie(or the DB guys are plain Stupid and you are not even using ACCESS) Bug/Oversight = Lie (or nobody knows anything about game design) Subsequent explenations/state done at a completly unrelated website or devblog or dev post do count aswell but not to the core lies so i wont dwell into them Originally by: Yeknom Nam Stuff first ... gm comunication is gona get nerfed to infinity second its quite interesting.... Another prime example of how things should be handled differently and with more respect to the customer. Not saying that you deserve reimbruisement or anything, just the replys themselves are less than courteous Originally by: Soma Kahn ...trolling.. WoW is -> that way if you want to be a troll
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.29 12:42:00 - [54] page 171 and still no apology >_< still a month to go till this account runs out of gametime i can wait
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.29 16:24:00 - [55] 171 pages (+49) and over 200k views thats got to be a record!
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.11.01 13:24:00 - [56] let me just open page 176 by stating im borred of this topic and im borred of ccp now barring some unforseen event im outa here its been fun but its time to move on i guess there are other things i can blow my money on no space pewpew mmo at the moment but i can always amuse myself with something else
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.11.15 01:41:00 - [57] Originally by: Freezehunter Originally by: Tasty Bit Originally by: Doctor Penguin This thread is STILL GOING? Sheesh. It's a game. It's not worth spending your time here mindlessly mashing out Why CCP is wrong: Part CXIV I think it's more a case of killing time till Jumpgate's Beta starts. Eve's Beta has almost run its course now. Jumpgate is a **ing joke compared to Eve, just like WoW... eve was a **ing joke in the beta tbh certain things kept it floating thou
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.11.20 06:26:00 - [58] this topic still alive ? gezz its still full of fannboys >_< . . . . . . . . and now that squirrel thought i was yet another ccp fanboy its fanboys of the game that have some sort of moral values vs fanboys of the game that think ccp defecates gold so like erm cant remember who it was above me sayd i commend the people still seeping thru the posts and try to explain what moral values are

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